While out on an op (well more like an uneventful trip to 0.0 and back again) with my new corporation, a few members and I were having a conversation regarding ransoms and low sec piracy. Not having been in the pirating business for a while and only ganking with my old corp, I didn’t realise how badly piracy (as a ransoming profession) had gotten. It seems that in the past year or so, the rate of pirates being paid ransoms and then blowing up the victim anyway has gone up hugely. It has gotten to the point that if someone offers a victim a ransom, their first reaction isn’t to open their wallet; but to say something along the lines of “Fuck you!”, swiftly followed by the pirate creating a cloud of dust where their ship used to be.
Now this would be all fine and dandy if a big chunk of the EVE player base didn’t use piracy as a main income source.
So this question brought me onto my next action, which was to create a forum thread in which I posted a poll asking the question you can see in the title. I later came to regret this as I forgot that in almost every thread in the Crime & Punishment forums, there’s someone that likes to insult and/or disrespect the OP. You’ll see the fella trying his hardest in the last couple pages.
As I posted the thread on Friday morning and I was staying at Heather’s Friday afternoon and onto Sunday night, I decided to leave it a few days to get a good range of results. When it came to Monday, I thought it best to leave it for a bit longer and here we are, a massive (by my standards) 470 votes later.
Before creating this poll, I had assumed that the vast majority of pirates that offer ransoms honoured them but boy was I wrong! I’d never have thought that it would turn out to be almost 50/50. The results are as follows.
- Always – 227 votes – 48%
- Nevar! – 212 votes – 45%
- Most of the time – 31 votes – 7%
I’m still quite speechless from the results. I had been thinking for months that the lack of successful ransoms had been due to people picking the wrong targets but it seems that it is because the other half of the pirating population is (either on purpose or otherwise) misusing the victim’s trust and causing ransoming pirates to lose out on a lot of income.
Below is a quote from EVE character, Mithos Victus.
A year ago this issue was just a quiet warning from the more veteran pirates in the game that the newest generation of up and coming pirates were doing it wrong, as it were. They were trying to have their cake and eat it too. Well of course, it seems like the problem has now only been further amplified by the speed nerf and gate buff.
Seems like this will become an increasingly pertinent issue as the notoriety and ability to put stock on paying ransoms and being let loose fades.
IMO the only good pirate is the pirate who either destroys at will, or not only honors ransoms but is wise enough to demand a ransom that the target is likely to pay.
I read a thread a long time ago by a very experienced pirate who said he never demanded ransom more than 50% of the worth of the ship he had snagged. Never relied on people being so concerned with the loss, or their personal attachment to their ship to pay more than the ship itself was worth. In fact, he said he would let most go if it seemed like they were a poor mark, i.e. flying a frigate or very low player age. Why waste time trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip, etc.
IMO it would be best for everyone if pirates who do not honor ransoms take a page from the book of those who do. With the recent changes, regardless of whether one adapts or not, piracy has likely become more and more of a hit and miss activity.
Maybe this is why we keep seeing more and more people flock to systems where they can pop macro haulers and farmers rather than wait on real targets that never show up or are nearly impossible to catch?
Not being a pirate, I don’t know, and I can’t really wager that most of my basic assumptions are absolutely correct, but I can tell you that the writing was on the wall for this sort of prevalent problem almost a year ago.
Why pay a ransom not only worth more than the ship you are flying, but with almost no guarantee (save the notoriety of the corporation) that you will even be let go? Absolutely no reason to pay a ransom these days unless you personally know of the corporation or individual ransoming you.
Mithos seems to have hit the nail on the head here. I’m not entirely sure how this problem can be fixed but for piracy not to decend into a free-for-all, killing any and all ships just for the killmail, I think something needs to be done.
What are your thoughts? Pirates, have you had any problems ransoming people? Non-pirates, what would you do if ransomed? Also, do you think that the ransoming system needs to be changed and if so, how?
February 26th, 2009 at 8:45 am
I have a fair to poor track record when it comes to recieving ransoms. I went a whole 4 months recently without recieving a single one and you can see from our ransom board that successful attempts are few and far between. Last night we tried to ransom a new player's pod for a joke with no success. It got to the point where I rarely bothered to offer them but I've got a bit more ISK-concious lately so will probably start offering more in the future.
Good article, mate.
February 26th, 2009 at 11:28 am
Thanks, man. Ouch, ransoming is really suffering. We definitely need CCP to implement some sort of ransoming system, I can't think of how though.
That ransom board is a great idea by the way, it's a pity there aren't more ransoms there.
February 26th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
Since replying to your post I actually picked up a nice easy pod ransom. It did help that the ransomee knows me and knows I'm trust-worthy but its still pleasing to see the wallet flash after a fight.
February 26th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
As Eve grows, I suspect that the "Nevar!" percentage will only increase. I do not have any suggestions for a solution, I think the nature of the beast is to encourage more ganking and less "honourable" piracy.
Perhaps if more loot was lost in kills than survived, and introducing a ransom mechanic that allowed a player to automatically escape upon payment of adequate ransom.
February 26th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
I suggest that the poll results are skewed by the forum trolls voting, many of whom probably: a) are not pirates and b) have never been exposed to a ransom situation in their EVE lives. I'm betting if you took a poll here on your blog, your results would be a lot different. I voted Always in your poll, btw. One Hellcats policy is that anyone who doesn't honor a ransom (which means the ransomee, once he's paid, is safe from us until next downtime) gets a warning and must pay the guy back his ship loss; second violation, they get kicked.
February 26th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
I also have to agree that it really sucks for those pirates that are "honorable" because if the chances of the ransom being honored vs not were far more in favor of being honored, then I would certainly be more apt to pay the ransom. Just as I think many, many others would be. Given the current 50/50 odds, and I think the poll is quite accurate, that's too high for me to consider paying. I'd rather be out a 100mil than chance being out 150mil. If even a remotely decent ransoming tool was implemented into Eve, one I as a "victim" could trust, then yes, I would honor the ransom as well. However, good luck to the game designers in figuring that one out.
February 26th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Damn, I start writing comments and end up with enough for a blog post!!! I'll finish it and post the link, you are my muse today mate!!!!
Some quick things. I have to agree with Mynxee here, the EVE forums has a tendency to generate a lot of garbage and the potential for a lot of false results on your survey will come from people who were simply ransomed and didn't want to agree to a price to people who simply hate pirates.
Remember, on Crime and Punishment, there are many 'ransom hater' posts each week. It's hard to get good information, but I would have to agree with you, more and more people are not honoring ransoms in the true sense of the 'honorable' ransom agreement.
February 26th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
I was originally going to post the poll on my blog but as my daily views tend to vary between 10 and 40, I didn't think I'd get very many votes. Plus I'm not sure how many of my readers are actually pirates apart from you and Wensley.
That's definitely a great ransoming policy that I'd love to see in more pirate corps.
February 26th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
That's a pretty good idea. Maybe with the pirate setting a ransom limit, and once the victim has sent an amount of ISK that either meets or exceeds said limit, the pirate's modules deactivate and the victim is untargetable by that pirate for a set amount of time.
February 26th, 2009 at 11:17 pm
Have a look above for Kirith Kodachi's comment and my reply. Would a mechanic like that encourage you to pay a ransom, or at least help you feel less like you're going to be screwed over afterwards?
February 26th, 2009 at 11:21 pm
Yeah, I would have loved to have done the poll here but with my currently daily views I reckon I would have only gotten around 10 votes and that wouldn't really give me the range I wanted. I will admit though that the results above may not be 100% accurate, especially because they started off being hugely in favour of "Always" on the first and second days.
Looking forward to that blog post!
February 27th, 2009 at 1:19 am
Well, here is the link, it goes live on Saturday.
http://www.eve-druid.com/2009/02/28/to-ransomor-n...